More + Product Details Close. See image: This seems to work pretty good. see this thread for more on that https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/a-small-trick-for-tempering-accurately-in-evenheat-kilns.1327991/. 6. there might be a setting in your PID that allows you to change how aggressively the kiln ramps up temperature. One thing to clarify regarding heating with a torch. time. She's been with me for 25 years, has been abused, used in every capacity you can think of, and is ready for a new design this winter. Sign In For Price $139.99 Kalorik 20.8 L (22 qt.) shielding from the coil (heavy duty aluminum foil) and better temperature gauging (cooking thermometer), on the topic of kilns though. For the temper, I use a cheap toaster oven I got at Canadian Tire. Thanks! If a person were to brush up against them while active, or touch them using a conductor like a metal fork of knife, there's a high risk of a shock that will … W1 hardening/tempering data. If you want it as soft as you can get it, do it a couple times and let it cool by itself overnight each time. JavaScript is disabled. Tempering involves heating the blade to a non-critical temperature (350 – 450 F) to slightly soften the steel (I used a kitchen oven). This will hold the heat in the blade longer to anneal it a lot better. Product Name. And yes you can put the blade(s) in a shallow pan with cat litter or sand to ensure an even temperature in the temper, but in my experience, if you get the hardening right, the temper is pretty easy. . The color you're looking for is a faint straw color. I might look into a small thermocouple reader and a couple thermocouples to make sure I'm getting the right tempering temp in my oven within my thermal mass. Dan, a toaster oven is the way to go. I do need to see if i can get into my PID logic in my cheap controller. Standing barefoot in a puddle that is grounded to ductwork would do it. Creating an enclosure with something such as fire brick will help you achieve this. I use dry ice so mine is set for 1950 degrees F. Hold for 15 minutes if only heat treating 1 knife. Here's an example of the birch, if you have seen furniture made out of it you know how pale, almost white it is. Sizes of Ovens for Making Knives. Tempering makes the knife A Bit Softer and a Lot Tougher Heat treating your knife hardens it significantly, but also makes it brittle like glass—susceptible to cracks and breaks if dropped. You can actually use a soup can and a propane torch to get the temp up to non-magnetic. Drill hole in side of oven to place thermometer probe in. Rank. (Jet Black) By Kizen. Drilling holes was often a problem; carbide-tipped bits work OK. An example site showing tempering temperatures vs hardness. This sounds fun. files are way to hard and brittle to use as is. 9.5. 1. Ugly as all get out, but the bottom one is the only one I have left. angle grinders can heat the steal and ruin the temper of the file. Use a smaller toaster oven if your piece of steel fits inside. if you doubt this just drop one on a concrete floor, Most people anneal (soften) before grinding. I'm currently putting one or two knives inside of a firebrick in my kiln to shield them from the radiation component of my heat, but this doesn't seem like a good solution as I would like to temper more than two knives at a time and it takes hours for my oven to cool down after enough to temper from my quenching temperatures. An accurate deep-fryer will do the same but use a good thermometer to double check on the oven or deep fryer's thermostat. I will likely experiment with a couple of different methods since used files are so cheap, and I figure the more experience I get the better. I have annealed like above, three times, pushed into wood ash or sand to cool overnight. In your case quench … Reheat at 375* for a second hour. Assuming normal 10" or so file. I have a few old files I've been thinking about making knives in my spare (HA!) This is usually 550 degrees Fahrenheit for skinners, tactical knives, and meat carvers. My first step was to arrange the insulated fire bricks to form a chamber that will be large enough for a single blade that is a maximum of 15″ long. Scale removed so you can see the bare metal, and tempered to a straw color, a little darker than yellow, but not heavy orange. Place probe next to knife. Temper the steel by placing it in an oven at 325 degrees until it begins to turn the color of light straw. the solutions are to add mass (a tray of sand, etc.) Temper in oven at 375* for an hour, turn off heat. All you would need to harden and temper would be a mapp gas. We’re trying to achieve a Rockwell Hardeness of somewhere between 53-63. I have an old farrier's rasp...thinking about it. I just picked up a couple of files form the local used reno store for a couple of bucks that I plan to turn into my first homemade knives. the problem with toaster ovens is the same as with you DIY kiln. Heat treating g for knives is three steps normalizing (heat to orange/red let cool) hardening (heat to red/orange quench) and tempering (heating from 250degf-500degf for at least an hour for most blades) the his is the very basics of heat treating a bit of research can get you more detailed info if … Bake it at about 350ºF and 30 minutes ought to be plenty for something as small as your 1/16" chisel. like magic. The first method of knifemaking I learned as a kid was to carefully grind a file into knife shape without overheating it, then temper to a straw/bronze color. Plus, this toaster oven includes an air fry basket, bake/broil pan and rack, and an external crumb tray that slides in and out to make cleanup a breeze. Too hard bump it 25 and re test. Put a hard firebrick in it to even out the temp (let the brick come up to full temp) and use a thermometer, because as it's been said, the dial on the oven is none to accurate. You will lose alot of heat, but it can be done. If it was me, I'd temper the chisel in a household oven or toaster oven. Normally after hardening, you then temper to make less brittle, also not quite as hard. Most files are too hard. I don't personally use a toaster oven for tempering, simply because I've never found one accurate/even enough to trust, but I do use it for many other, less critical things, such as kydex, and baking parts that have been Gun-Kote finishes. By Jeremiah Blanchard. That, or the bread pan full of sand, are probably the two best ways for making the redneck techniques work consistently. In short, bring it to critical temperature, quench it in vegetable oil, then temper it in an toaster oven or regular kitchen oven for one hour at 400˚. Saved from youtube.com. Inserting a metal knife or fork when the toaster is unplugged isn’t recommended either. good luck and show us when done. Knife Dogs Main Forum . A while ago I posted some pics of a knife that had turned purple in my toaster oven during tempering. Best toaster oven knife tempering. close proximity to coils, and aggressive on/off cycling. I realize that I could chop up an old analog toaster oven and throw a thermocouple for a PID in there and it would be pretty good, but I'm wondering if anything off the shelf would be sufficient these days before I spend a good amount of time and energy putting a PID on an old toaster oven. Make a rent of several layers of tin foil to shield knife from top elements. Thread starter diverdale; Start ... Of course leave the areas that have the "vents" uncovered. The same method works with sawblades and other already-hardened steel. If heat treating multiple knives I add 3 mins of time for each knife (two minutes to plate quench the knife, 1 minute to get the next one out of the oven). Evenheat Ovens and Kilns; Paragon Oven and Kilns; Heat Treat Accessories; Ready-Ship Program - Heat Treat Ovens; Knife Kits. Thanks for the tip! Folder Kits; Lubes & Oils; Metals. If you think the finished steel is too soft, try starting at around 350 for 1 hr then test. Before final hardening, normalize it by heating to red and air cool. Let cool in oven overnight. AmazonBasics 8-Piece Non-Stick Cookware Set By AmazonBasics. http://paleop Toaster ovens and tempering questions Hello all, I've been using my electric DIY oven to heat treat and temper my knives, but I have been running into the fact that the radiation from my coils has been over-tempering my knives (my oven is only about 5" wide), so I'm looking to get a toaster oven (or modify one) to combat this and produce a more reliable way of tempering my knives. Watching. Let the oven heat completely before you place your steel inside. The Cubed knife oven is larger and also designed for folding blades. The road to success is to evenly heat the metal. So, if you take one hand, and insert a metallic knife or fork into the toaster, then there is a potential for current to flow into the body but only if the circuit is completed. Ah, makes sense, i am a small hobby type guy (15-20 blades per year) so i'm sticking with the current DIY oven it seems. This is good info! I have made many custom length files by ptting in a vise and striking wit a hammer resulting in a pretty straight break. I use a toaster oven for my small work, but I put a 1 inch thick firebrick in there, place the blade's edge right against the glass (furthest away from the heating elements) and tend to get a uniform temper. My max is 4 knives at a time. I have access to material, some tools and probably I know someone with a belt sander, but still worried about mucking it up. I've watched a dozen youtube videos of folks making file knives, so I've got a pretty good idea of the basics, and I'm not too worried about losing a my $2 investment if I screw up too badly. I would avoid tempering with a torch, especially if it involves heating the body to a red color. I run two tempers, for two hours each at 400F (205C) letting the blade cool completely between. I did a guide about how to make a knife from a file a couple years ago with minimal equipment. Bluing is a technique that is used for most firearms to establish a corrosion-resistant finish. Custom Knife. That helps a ton. We need to soften it up slightly to add flexibility so that it doesn’t shatter. Don't over temper; you can always temper more, but you can't reverse the process. I use the oven for tempering. I for one would love a step by step guide for idiots. If you use a torch to get the desired colour to approximate the temper you need to quench as soon as you reach the colour. Heat Treat Ovens and Accessories. You can leave as is , but you have to keep dipping in water to keep cool. Toaster ovens can be very inaccurate. Place the blade in the oven at the temperature that is correct for its intended use and for the type of steel used to make it. Although there’s no immediate risk of electrocution, you could damage the toaster and create a future hazard. Normalizing gives finer grains that make the steel tougher. Happens pretty fast over a hot forge. I'll be watching this one. place files on glowing coals and come back in the morning. Hardening steel is the easy part; minimizing warpage is another. toaster oven blade tempering. You must log in or register to reply here. View Product. Observe the knife blade color between tempering cycles. Excellent advice given above. I've taken to pre-heating my oven, then sliding the knife in, closing it up, and resuming at a lower temp (which it will slightlyovershoot and then even out) and bumping the temp up from there to my tempering temperature, which is a pretty stable way to do it. I've been using my electric DIY oven to heat treat and temper my knives, but I have been running into the fact that the radiation from my coils has been over-tempering my knives (my oven is only about 5" wide), so I'm looking to get a toaster oven (or modify one) to combat this and produce a more reliable way of tempering my knives. Electrical shock: The heating elements in toaster ovens generate heat using high voltage electrical currents. I'm familiar with the old style of toaster ovens with a dial and a on/off switch, and have been told to add thermal mass to combat the cycling but I'm wondering if the newer, digital models would do a better job of maintaining an exact temperature or if anyone has had experience with them in general. I never temper a knife above 400F and have never had a HT related problem. Just trust my insitncts with the radiation shielding but verify with the thermocouples that's i'm not over-temping. Usually an 1/8" hole works. Normalized. Use a gal can of sand to push the blade into once it is red hot. Preheat your oven to 375 °F (191 °C). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Before I dive in I'd like to know if this temp is accurate. Two ways to temper to a useable hardness/toughness: by colors or by temperature. Score. Instant Read Meat Thermometer – Best Waterproof Ultra Fast Thermometer with Backlight & Calibration. (230) Compare Product. The heavy mass of a firebrick oven help minimize the temperature cycles and exposure to over heating.The economics of heat treating your own knives is straight forward math. View Product. 9.7. I've made a few file knives, but only with a forge, never tempering in an oven. Go slow. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the knifemaking community, Press J to jump to the feed. If you can’t place your steel directly in the oven, then you’ll need to use a blow torch for the tempering process instead. My inexpensive solution is to use the outdoor lighting timer (NOMA brand) that has a 2 hour on timer setting. Also, bring the oven to temp before putting knife in. Will propane work ok, or do I need to use MAPP? I have annealed files in a charcoal grill. Hardened. You don't want your blade to get over heated during tempering by being right next to an element in a small toaster type oven. all files need to be annealed and then hardened and tempered. I have O1 around to make tools. If you are just going to shape by grinding/sanding you might get away without hardening but you will need to temper as files are pretty brittle. Clean a portion of the steel on the back of the piece with the steel wool before placing it in the oven so you have a clean spot to see the color change. if you don't want to heat treat it i would cut it with a hacksaw or a portaband. This is a chemical process that can be accomplished in a few ways, including traditional hot-salt bluing or cold bluing. Related The Best Method of Gun Bluing. I'll post my progress when I have some time to start the projects. Score . Air Fryer Toaster Oven, Black Multifunctional air fryer toaster oven can fry; Rated 2 out of 5 stars based on 1 reviews. Can you get it hot enough (red and nonmagnetic) with propane, or do you need more heat than that? To anneal properly, cool slowly after heating to red. Do I hear a second? There’s a knife that I want to make and having this heat treatment oven will ensure that the blade will be properly hardened. Best value. Forged and filed to shape. many of them tend to also be fairly imprecise. If not your blade may get hotter than desired as oven ramps up. Thanks everyone! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/a-small-trick-for-tempering-accurately-in-evenheat-kilns.1327991/. Tempering can be done in many ways but the easiest is the oven/toaster oven. So would taking the other hand and placing it on a metal faucet or water pipe in the kitchen sink next to the toaster. A basic aspect to consider when choosing a knife oven is its interior dimensions. 2. Hey hey everyone, Merry Christmas! Toaster Oven Mods. I was wondering what people are using for tempering ovens and controls. I've got a big farrier's rasp I have been wanting to make a knife out of for a while! Place knife on sand. As others have suggested an oven thermometer is wise. If you want precision, go with salts and thermocouples. A tempered blade will hold a … How to Temper Knife Blades. The HT-1 and HT-2 heat treating ovens are intended for metal components rather than long blades. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. A toaster’s heating coils are usually insulated from the metal chassis by a material called mica. https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/guide-how-to-heat-treat-a-file-knife.168222/. I've got the classic toaster oven, but the wind-up timer doesn't stay on for 2 hours. Galanz 1.1 cu ft 6-Slice Digital Toaster Oven with Air Fry, Stainless Steel TotalFry360™ air fry technology; 8 pre-set functions: air fry; Rated 4.1 out of 5 stars based on 230 reviews. Kizen Digital Food Thermometer for Kitchen, Outdoor Cooking, BBQ, and Grill! This will leave a soft area that will be prone to bending. 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I 'm not over-temping for one would love a step by step guide for idiots and controls 350. Can fry ; Rated 2 out of for a better experience, please enable in... Bbq, and meat carvers when the toaster is unplugged isn ’ t shatter to harden and temper would a. Intended for metal components rather than long blades a 2 hour on timer setting to! Many ways but the easiest is the way to go if i can get into my PID logic my... The morning temp before putting knife in to cool overnight temper more but... Chemical process that can be done in many ways but the easiest is the easy part minimizing... To anneal properly, cool slowly after heating to red and air cool success is to use the lighting! 400F and have never had a HT related problem oven is its interior dimensions if! Seems to work pretty good blade cool completely between is usually 550 degrees Fahrenheit skinners!